Amazing Execs 108 Darrin Mitchell
Amanda: Acrelic Group welcomes you to The Amazing Exec Show, where business leaders learn from other leaders. Join us, along with your host, David Rosen, the CEO of Acrelic Group. We discover and dive into stories from executives, founders, and owners and what separates them from success and failure. Hear and see amazing leaders from startups, middle market, and global leading companies.
Key Highlights During the Discussion:
Introduction
David: Over the last 20 years, Darrin grew a very successful manufacturing business. He developed a worldwide marketing system with partners in six continents. Patented intellectual property, a global supply chain and profits, that had 10x the industry average. Most impressive, he did it from a small remote island in the northern part of Canada.
And I do want to talk a little bit about that, Darrin, because I’m thinking that it’s better to have employees in a very cold place where they can’t go out and do much other than work, but we’ll talk about that in a minute. And you’re now creating a new business that is, switching from hard goods products and the manufacturing industry to staying focused in manufacturing, but you’re now focusing on closing some of the gaps that manufacturers and others have in terms of learning.
I’d love to hear more about that and have you tell us more. Darrin Mitchell, CEO of Mitchell Industries. Welcome to the Amazing Execs podcast.
Darrin: Thank you for being here, David.
David: Thank you. I’d like to hear a little bit of a flavor about where you’re from, because you’re not from one of the top 10, growth industry spots in the country. and I’d like to hear how that has helped you or hinder you, and at the end, I’d like to hear some advice that you would leave with other owners and founders, uh, and other executives of companies to share.
So, tell us about your journey to create and grow, was it Trout River Industries?
Darrin: Yeah, um, so you mentioned in the intro about employees, I always felt guilty that we won the Employer of the Year award, uh, because we were the only employer, uh, in a, in a community of, uh, 63. We had 131 employees. So two factories, um, and 131 employees in a community of 63. So every year I would get the award.
Kind of feel a little guilty. It’s, it’s not that we did a whole lot, but they really had no other place to go. So, uh, you know, I say that tongue in cheek because I was very, very proud of my crew, you know, being from a very remote area. you would have an electrician, a welder, and a carpenter all built into the same person.
So the, the puzzle was how do we find a way to make this work in a meaningful way that produces the results that we’re looking for. Um, so again, um, an island in the Atlantic Ocean, north of Maine, um, we were fortunate enough that in 96, they built a nine mile bridge to the main line land. So that was helpful.
uh, for, uh, shipping products in and out. So 25 years ago, uh, my partner, who’s the mechanical person, uh, started this business making trailers and, uh, he contacted me and he said, I have a business plan. And I said, that’s great. He said, it costs 17, 000. What should we do? And I said, get your money back. What?
And I said, listen, where this location is, you are not where the customer is. You’re not where the supply chain is. And there are companies that are owned by Berkshire Hathaway that are vertically and horizontally integrated that you can never touch. So I think it was eight months later, he called me and said, you know.
We’re, we’re maybe in a bit of shit, but so we ended up becoming partners and from literally that moment on, we said to ourselves, how do we redesign the business model to actually be competitive in this industry?
David: Right. Now I want to, if I can just clarify a little bit, Darrin, when you’re talking about trailers, you’re not talking about Winnebago homes or not talking about the full behind recreational vehicles. You’re talking about truck trailers.
Darrin: heavy industry, gravel, mining, agriculture, hauling big heavy stuff for long loads involved in construction, uh, you know, we paved the Anchorage, uh, runways for the airport with our equipment. We also help build the parking lot of Shea Stadium. So just to give you an example, anytime you see them building big dams, our equipment was bringing the product in and out.
And if anybody who’s listening to this has ever been stuck in traffic because they’re building a road, Now you know the face to curse because you were stuck in traffic. So at least
David: You’re the wide load guy.
Darrin: Yep. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry for making you an hour late. Um, so yeah, um, we, uh, we started doing that. We tried to do all best practice.
Secret: Turning Competitors Into Partners – Customers
Darrin: Um, we got the company growing at a steady rate. And, um, I ended up going, starting to meet with my competitors and I would go to Ohio and, uh, all the, you know, a lot of big manufacturers in Ohio. And I would say, listen, listen, listen, don’t be upset. I know I look like a competitor, but you are very big and strong and I am very small and weak because I am from nowhere.
And they would agree. And it would, it would be excellent because as soon as that was out of the way. We started having conversations about business and opportunities and struggles. And what I learned from that is they were so good at production, they were not very agile. Um, and they were very happy making 5 to 7 percent margin.
And that shook me to my core going literally if I ever wanted to compete against you, uh, just getting the materials to my location. would have ended this fight. Like literally, you know, you’re big, you’re professional, the customers come and pick up the product in your yard. Um, we would have been out for a dozen reasons.
So, uh, in looking at that, not just trying to be a good company with all best practices, um, we had to change up the business model. So we spent a lot of time on innovation. And making the products more expensive and more complicated. And we did that on purpose. And as long as it served the need for the customer, that was the recipe.
So what would happen is, um, in this mixture of making more complicated products with moving parts, I would go back and meet with my competitors and they would go, I hate you. I wouldn’t say, well, I like you. Why do you hate me? Well, because you made it complicated, we can’t integrate your products into our line and then it’s harder to compete against you.
I know, that’s exactly why I’m doing it. Um, so,
David: So you said. We were looking at ways to be innovative and creative. Who is the we and what process were you using to be able to think through that and, and put it to pen and actually figure out what to converge on
Darrin: um,
David: and prioritize as a business leader, as a partner in a business, you know, what was that process like?
Darrin: uh, easiest way I can, um, share that
Secret: Spending Ridiculous Amount of Time with Customers
Darrin: for anyone listening is you need to spend time with your customers. That is the process. Your customers will show you exactly what the end result is of your supply chain. So, you may think you have it all figured out in an award winning product, but maybe your shipping sucks.
You may think you have it all figured out. And you’ve added 20 different benefits to your products. They may have only needed one. I probably travel three times a month just spending time with customers. Saying, what’s missing in here?
Pounce on Opportunities – The Call from an Elon Musk Company
Darrin: So, really good example, I got a phone call a couple years ago from, uh, an Elon Musk company.
And they said, we’re building tunnels all over the U. S., we need your help. And I was on the next plane to L. A. I think I’ve heard of this company before. This may be an opportunity for us. So the first
David: is the Hyperloop.
Darrin: Yep. So the first meeting that we had was, uh, in a tunnel. So that’s where I had my first meeting with them and even got to send them equipment out of it. But, um, the, the moral of the story is that the.
Leadership, um, you can sometimes get into a false sense of communication and understanding very clearly of where my information is coming from and for what objective. So really good example, if I only had six customers. And we would say, so what are customers telling us? And we were selling through a dealer.
Secret: Being a curious leader and finding information about the end result of my supply chain
Darrin: Well, I already know the answer. He needs to be higher quality and cheaper and et cetera, et cetera. That’s not actually going to get the information that you’re looking for. So you have to be an extremely curious leader on saying. What is the end result of my supply chain? And like I said, it could be your features or how you’re taking the orders or maybe something in the middle of the process that you missed an important detail to the customer.
Um, I remember we sold I think it was over 4 million to one mining site because literally the equipment could back up over a two foot retainer wall to unload the material. So the whole site had a two foot retainer wall and they said your equipment because you modified the back end just that brief by moving the bumper.
we can now unload over the retaining wall. And I went, great, that’s several million dollars to us because nobody came out and seen what the customer actually needed at the end of the day. Um, and again, it, it held the truth for me when I was in the boardroom with my managers and the managers were explaining to me what the, what’s going on, is I always kept the customer in mind while we were in that meeting going.
Actually, you’re a little out of line with this one because they don’t actually care about that, but they do really care about what you just said. So, you have to make sure of where the information is coming from and what the objective is of the person that’s giving you that information. And as long
David: And how current is the information, right? If it’s feedback from a year ago, that may not help you in terms of today’s problems.
Darrin: Yeah, I met with, uh, uh, one company and they said they were having trouble with their sales team. They manufacture plastic products for the automotive industry. And they had one large customer and one salesman. And it was just a repeated customer conversation. The exact same conversation have been happening for six years ever since they hired them.
And what happened to their salesperson is it almost, uh, corrupted his thought process. that he thought he was working for the customer and the company was always doing bad things. And I think we’re always late. I’m always getting yelled at and it created a very negative experience. So I just dealing with that company, I went either move them to a different customer or find him multiple customers to work with.
David: right, right. Interesting. So Unpack this a little bit more, Darrin. I really, you, you are in an industry that is not known for being innovative and creative. We’ve lost a huge amount of skills in our industry because, you know, as we talked earlier, one of my first experiences in really researching manufacturing was the fact that in New Jersey, where I was living and sold them, that While I’ve been growing up in tech and tech has been doing great things, manufacturing had the opposite and inverted curve.
So in 1986, there were 115, 000 manufacturers just in the state of New Jersey. And as of about four or five years ago, when I last looked at it, there’s still less than 12, 000. And so here you are in an industry that has been Offshored, if you will, but I think one of the things that you do is you are customer centric and by following the customer you’ll be much more responsive in what it is that you’re doing as a manufacturer, as a distributor, as a provider, which is a great lesson for anyone, you know, being customer centric, if you can do that in your business.
That is a great way to go. What, what created your psyche to partner up with, with your, your colleague who was, I am assuming more on the technical side and you’re more of the business. Where did you get that business thinking? Where did you get that comprehensive issue where when you saw five or 8 percent EBIT, you cringed a little bit.
Where did you get that psyche that get fire in your gut and your journey?
Fear Drove Their/His Need to Be Customer Centric to Grow
Darrin: Fear. Straight, straight up fear. Uh, we mentioned earlier that, uh, you know, payroll comes every Friday or every second Friday. I feel very accountable to that, to the families that I report to that work with me. So what I could never do was status quo. And, uh, it was, fear was always the motivator that because we were so remote, we, one, we physically had to get on a plane and go see the customer, and two, we could never take those relationships for granted because we always knew, uh, we were starting with a black eye.
So we literally, everything we did was designed to go the extra step. to make sure that we were having better relationships, better products, better innovation, um, because we can never take those for granted. So, really good example when I talk about supply chain to the customer on the other side of our business.
One of the other things I was getting was people were saying, well, we sell to New York as the importer and then it goes to Toronto and then it goes to Halifax and then it goes to you. And I went, Oh, that sounds like a 4, 000 percent markup. I can’t pay that. And because we. I knew that, you know, even that part of the supply chain, the customer didn’t want to pay for.
I started going to South Korea and China and Taiwan and soul sourcing some of the materials that, because that’s where they were, you know, get off your high horse. That’s where they were coming from anyway. But the heavy chain that we were using. Uh, wasn’t, wasn’t, you can’t, there’s not even a North American manufacturer for that anymore.
So what I was doing is I was going to those other countries so we didn’t get lazy. I think that’s the big thing. Fear caused us not to be lazy. So I was, Really good example. I was importing container loads of plastic fenders that cost in North America, a hundred dollars OEM pricing. I was bringing them in from England for $32
David: Wow. From England.
Darrin: So I went back to my competitors in the US and I said, listen, if I could. Brand your logo on this plastic fender. Would you want it for say 88? And they went, yeah, that’s a great deal. So I was bringing in container loads just for my competitors. And again, I would rather stay on their good side. Then then be actually seen as a competitor to them.
But again, that back to your question, it was fear going. We can’t be just as good as the company that’s next to us because we’re already three steps behind.
David: Right. Right. But, but you, you have a, a unique way of looking at things that, that give you answers quickly about concerns you have in your business. Do you, you know, did you study business? Have you always, you were 12? I mean, what, what’s your story personally?
Darrin’s Background Story – Hungry and Needed to Pay for Food!
Darrin: Um, when I was graduating from school, I needed income desperately because I was hungry. And, um, I was hired by a city to do their business development.
technically no skills in it. And I went, so what are we going to do? We need manufacturers to set up here. And I ended up selling out a new business park in nine months.
So I just got in my truck and started driving around visiting manufacturers across the US saying, this may be a great spot for you to set up. And we ended up selling that out in nine months. And again, I think, I think we’re seeing a trend here. You have to go where the customers are. Otherwise you’re just sitting by yourself waiting for something good to happen.
So,
David: you weren’t afraid of, uh, of closing out your job because you were done?
Darrin: uh, well, that’s actually what happened and why I ended up moving here is the old boys told me one day, just take it easy for the next year. You’ve done a good job. And I went, I’ll see you later. So that’s what brought me to this remote place.
David: So, so give us a sense of scale. So you were with, you were with Trout River Industries for 20 years, is that right?
Darrin: 23.
David: 23 years. And it started from just you and your colleague, The engineer and the technical integrator and you’re kind of the entrepreneur, CEO, and you guys, you must have partnered really well.
Tell us,
Darrin: Yeah. Our, uh, our skill sets were completely opposite, but our values and principles were identical. So there were times when I would walk out in the parking lot and I would go listen. We can start throwing fists if you want, but just because we can make something doesn’t mean we should make it because I just need to make money from it.
So keeping his eye. And I always told people I would just scoop out his brain power and sell it to people. And it was, uh, it was awesome. And just knowing how to pick and choose the right things that we knew we could duplicate and replicate over and over again, that were, uh, innovative. And as a result,
we patented a lot of those ideas and I started selling them to other companies globally who paid us a licensing fee. And that worked out really well that we did Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Middle East, and Europe, and they, these were other manufacturers who were stagnant, who were saying if we could have your marketing, and we could have your innovation, or herding, um, we would like to pay you a licensing fee.
So a very good chunk of our revenue off on this column was coming in an annual licensing fees. And the irony of what happened in the middle of that was, um, they would say, why don’t you also sell us the components? So we set up a new factory just to build parts. who was containerizing components and sending it to them in the other countries, which was ironic because one of the reasons we set up a licensing agreement is we didn’t have to do that.
What they said was, “you’re just too easy to deal with. “And I went, perfect. That’s exactly where we need to be.
David: So Darrin, can, you share with whatever you feel comfortable sharing but I’m assuming over 20 some, you know, 23 years that you grew the business You
Growth Curve HERE
David: always see, you go to business school or you go to a startup, Accelerator or a venture fund, and they always show you this beautiful soft curve of going from startup to growth and from growth to scale and scale to the moon.
Darrin: Yes, that looks great.
David: But the reality is, and I’ll probably throw this in to the podcast, the reality is, The emotional and absolute curve that occurs is one that looks more like a sine wave of the ups and motions and down emotions as you’re, you’re trying to get from one step to the other. And it, and it, and it, it has a lot of dips in it early on where you, you, you totally screwed up and the product, it wasn’t right.
So you have to keep working on it to get the product market fit. And then all of a sudden you do start getting some trajectory, but it’s over a bunch of squiggly curves and sine waves. It’s not just one smooth curve that goes up. Can you share with us the stages that you went through in your growth journey?
And what did you do to either identify times where you realized you needed to think and act differently in the business and manage the business differently, and the culture and the decision making along that journey. Did you see some, milestones that you had your business where you had to pivot from a business leadership perspective?
And what were those? And can you describe a little bit of your critical mass? Sorry, I unpacked a lot of questions there.
Lessons Learned During Growth and Critical Pivots
Darrin: Yeah. Uh, I just got to limit my stories of things that went wrong. Um, so one of the first things that we did early on was, uh, what, what, what do we want to build? Like, who do we tell people we are? And the hardest part was, uh, I, with, I think it was
Pivot 1: Stop Production on Zero Margin Products
Darrin: within the first year we stopped making a dozen products.
Yeah. Stop. We can’t be good at it. We don’t have enough brain power. They’re making us look busy, but they’re not going to get us to where we want to go. Yeah, but we, we have an order for them. Yes. And there’s 0 percent margin. That’s not a business. we can’t mass produce this certain product line to ever become efficient.
We’re just not doing it anymore. Uh, that was a difficult stage to realize what we had to stop doing. The second one that
David: So a year into it, were you a half a million dollars in revenue, a quarter of a million dollars?
Darrin: I think we were, we’re close 700, 000 dollars. And I remember there was a farmer walking through the factory. with a chunk of steel to bend. And they went, he doesn’t work here, he can’t be in the factory. And it was a big thing in the community that this a hole stopped letting people from the public come in and bend steel.
You
David: Oh no.
Darrin: do that. Well, that’s
David: Because you had all the metal working equipment. And how many people did you have at the time?
Darrin: 12.
David: Okay.
Darrin: Yeah, but everybody knows who he is.
David: Yeah, yeah, that’s so funny.
Darrin: yeah, the second big
David: But I do want to ask, did you let him bend it or not the
Darrin: Uh, so what I did is I said, you go with him. He’s going to bend it for you under one condition. I’ll give you a 10 bucks. No, no, no, no. I don’t want your money. You can’t tell people you were here today and you can’t come back.
David: Right.
Darrin: So that’s, that’s how we got rid of the last few.
Pivot 2: Making Sure I had the Right Management Team
Darrin: The second one that was, yeah. a little painful was, um, making sure I had the right management team, and I’ll share with you that there was one employee in particular who would work 24 hours a day, and the hardest working guy you can imagine, and literally would have tattooed the company name on him. He wore all the company swag, he lived and breathed everything.
And, uh, one day he, I came in in the morning, I, horrible story, I seen there was some blood left dried on the floor and he was using a grinder at night and cut off his, half of his thumb, so he went to the hospital and reattached it. So I went and seen him at home and I said, listen, I said, you, you can’t do this.
So I know you’re in charge of a lot of people. You’ve got the respect from everyone. You can’t keep giving so much. Like I never ever want to see that happen to any human. You can’t do that anymore. What I need you to do is put systems in place. So. everybody else does what they’re supposed to do. So you’re not there at 10 o’clock at night.
And I’ll never forget the next day we had company pocket knives. The next day he was all bandaged up and he came to my office and put it on my desk and I said, I, he said, I guess we’re all done and he left. And it, uh, It broke my heart because it was a just a superhuman being who didn’t understand what the company was becoming.
So every time you go from here to here, it involves new conversations, new systems, new culture. We weren’t all sitting at the same picnic table at Christmas. Um. It involved new systems and he just said, you just want me to do more and more. I was going, no, no, no, I don’t, I don’t want you to mutilate yourself.
That’s horrible. Like we don’t operate that way. And he didn’t, he didn’t get that message. So the next step was making sure that I was working hard on. a team that understood what the business was when it went to this stage and they had enough flexibility to grow as it went to the next stage. Because I remember I had a sales manager who said when is enough with you?
I’ll let you know. That’s what we do. We’re growing a business that we feel proud about our accomplishments as a team. it was just, you know, when we hit the 30 million mark, is that not good enough? No, it’s not. This is what we do. So, and the last one, not to, like I said, when you, when you say this, I, I, I’m so glad you asked the question because if anybody thinks it’s just, you know, tick, tick, tick on a roller coaster.
You’re going to be disappointed when it gets to here.
Pivot 3: Manage Payroll and Cash Flow or Else…
Darrin: Um, the last one was, is we had a warranty issue, I think back in 2008. That almost killed us. And, uh, I remember being at a Walmart, uh, very, uh, two plane rides from here. And the controller called me and said, if we don’t have a million bucks in the account by the end of the week, we’re not hitting payroll.
And I remember looking up at the Walmart sign going. Oh, that’s the sign I’ve been given. Oh, so you do what you got to do. So I said, all right, I’m here. I have to make something happen. So I went and seen two very large companies. And I said, listen, I said to the first one, I’m going to partner with you and you’re going to buy my product. And they went, well, we’ve heard about you. We, um, you’ve been on our radar screen.
What do we have to do to partner? And I said, you have to prepay me. for 10 100, 000 thousand dollars units today. That is highly unusual there. And I said, listen, do you want this partnership or not? And I got the check. I got the check. And I’ll never forget, I went to the bank after. I went to the bank after and the bank said, sir, we can’t deposit this.
And they said, get the manager. Right now, because I didn’t come this way, so I formed two new partnerships, got the money that we needed to get to the next step, and we, we got through that, but if I was just willing to sit back and accept. what the cards have been dealt. I could have spent all my time and energy just making excuses.
I could have blamed the U. S. President. I could have blamed the global economy. But you know what? I’m the only one here and I got to do something to get to the next step.
David: Well, the reality is, Darrin, you and I both know that
Secret: When you don’t make payroll, it comes out of our pocket!
David: When you don’t make payroll, it comes out of your wallet as an owner of a business. And that’s the fear that always drives me. You know, because it does happen. You don’t make payroll. Cash flow can get funky. You can have a delay. And when customers pay you, sometimes it’s 45 days, sometimes it’s 60 days.
You know they’re going to pay you, but something happens and it doesn’t get there in 30 days. It gets there in 60.
Darrin: you’re right, that’s another challenge that businesses have to deal with as they grow, your cash starts doing these bigger ups and downs as well. And you have to be ready for that. It’s just not this huge new influx of cash, it’s just bigger variations in your cash.
David: I want to go back to something for a second that we talked about before, which was your partnership do you call yourselves co founders? Are you, was he the founder and you came in?
Darrin: I think he’s, he’s the smart one,
David: there’s some school of thoughts that the most effective entrepreneurs are those that have two brains.
One, they’re divergent and creative and they’re business savvy. And then the other side of them is that they are an operator and doer and get it done. So, and there’s a premise that says that in many cases that happens in two people that co found a business and. That’s where things really hum.
And it’s all about having two people to partner in growing a business so that you’ve got the creative that keeps things moving forward and in the right direction. And then you’ve got the integrator doer who is getting things done and doing the shifts and changes. does that resonate with you?
Darrin: very much. So, we would walk into, uh, a very large customer, and my partner would say, actually if you just did this, this, and this, you would just solve your entire problem. And I would go, wait! Can we have an order? Like just a beautiful mind to watch of how, you know, technical and operational things would go and just literally go if you just did, you know, this one thing I remember. I have a,
Example: I always love partnering with my competitors
Darrin: I always love partnering with my competitors. One of my competitors, a different one, not in Ohio, came to me and said, you know how to polish aluminum. And we went, yes. How’d you do it? Well, not. Not being all sassy like that, and we went, well, nothing exists, so we had to build a machine. Hmm. Would you build one for us? And we said, sure. So we ordered 8, 000 worth of parts and we ended up charging them, I think it was 25, 000 and said, here, we built you a machine.
And I could not let that go. So I went and met with them and I said, so how do we do? And they went, great, what do you want? And I went, well, you’ve already paid me, what are you offering? And they went, what do you want from us that we can do something nice back for you? And I went, can I have your pricing on Axles?
And they went, one phone call. You’re good. 2, 000, 000 straight to the bottom line that year just from one phone call because it got me, it got me out of a series of middlemen I couldn’t get out of, but that one pathway was 2, 000, 000 straight to the bottom line just with one phone call. And those are things that got me, me excited was finishing off that deal to produce those results.
So we could use that as that stepping stone to get to the next step. My partner was just incredibly happy. That someone was using his machine.
David: Absolutely.
Darrin: I don’t really care less about it. I don’t know. Whatever.
David: And you made a margin on it. And, uh, that’s good. Uh, you check all the boxes, but there, and that’s an interesting point. And I’d like to explore that a little bit more. Um, what, who are you dealing with at your competitor who actually, who actually was thoughtful enough to Say you did something really nice for us and we know we’re, you know, confirming we’re competitors.
So thank you. What can I do in return? Was it the owner? Was it the founder? And how often do you actually see that in people you do business with?
Darrin: Um, all cases it was the owners. And I worked very hard on building those relationships. I work very, very hard on building those and I hope meaningful relationships. So a, you know, we’re trustworthy. We’re not going to do anything underhanded cause you only get to do that once. And B, you can actually ask us for stuff.
So instead of this, you know, sort of, uh, fluffy back and forth stuff. We’ll see you at the next annual conference. I actually want to do something to move this relationship forward. So again, we would spend, uh, I would, I would spend a great amount of time with my, um, the, like really good example, one of my dealers would call, remember my dealer called me and he said, Darrin, I have a legal issue that I have to fire an employee, but I think we’re going to court.
What do we do?
David: So he relied on you to be a business partner and go beyond just the transaction.
Secret: Having your Partners Think of You as the “GO-TO”
Darrin: So without the, forget the outcome. I was just happy they had the confidence to make that phone call to say, one, we’re not going to spread your name or your, your business around the countryside. And two, you actually think of us as your go to, what do I do? And that, that felt good and it felt right.
David: What’s interesting, Darrin, is that I’ve, I’m a researcher, so I kind of dig in and kind of look for data to back up the research and understand the order of magnitude of things. I’ve never seen in anything that describes the traits of successful entrepreneurs or executives. I don’t think I’ve ever seen what we were just talking about, which is.
The fairness in relationship building as one of the top 10 traits of a successful entrepreneur. And yet, if you and I think about it, and the way we’ve run our businesses and our lives, that’s probably one of the top two or three. How do you react to that? Is that, do you agree with that? Have you seen it more and I’m just missing it?
Because it’s You know, I grew up in the Midwest, which has a different culture than other parts of the country. We’re not one homogeneous culture in the U. S. We’re several. And, um, you know, part of it was just also the way I was brought up and how I deal with people and how I give back a lot. And I think that something else will come back and affect me.
Darrin: Hmm.
David: What do you call it? What do you, how do you react to that?
Darrin: Well, without being cheesy and saying that’s, that’s how I want to be treated. So I can’t speak ever for every leader. That’s, that is how I want to be treated. And those are the kinds of people I want to surround myself with. I know that when, and I mentioned before about that phase we went to when I was looking at my leadership team, I always train my leadership team the exact same way.
You have TWO Jobs as a Leader
Darrin: You have two things. You have two objectives, and your two objectives come in order. One, your job is to get the job done. Otherwise, we don’t have a business. And two, your job is to care for the people around you. Because that’s how you get the job done the second time. Please repeat often. Repeat to the people who report to you.
A, our job is to get the job done. One of the things and we’re talking about, you know, uh, some people go, well, that stuff you’re talking about today is fluffy. Guess what? We were also making 48 to 52 percent margin. So I think we’re saying some things that are of importance. Step one is. If your house isn’t in order, you didn’t earn the right to have these conversations.
I can’t help someone until I first help myself. So one, it should be a given today that your house has to be in order. People know that you do what you said you were going to do. Your systems are in place to flex a bit to get the job done. But most people stop there. You have to go to that second step and put yourself out saying, how do I help the people in the industry?
Whether my competitors or my customers, I would even do the same with my suppliers and say, listen, how can we make these things easier for you? Because in the future, I’ll say there’s supply chain disruptions worldwide. I still want you to be the one that you call, please. Not that I beat the shit out of you on price.
And I’m the first one that gets cut. I don’t want to be that guy.
David: Right.
Darrin: I think those two things are extremely important, not only for the leadership, but showing that to your staff. Step one, if we don’t get the job today, we don’t make payroll. Step two is we have to care for the people around us because it’s pretty much all we have.
And we don’t get to do step one. If you don’t do step two, you just end up being an arsehole.
David: Right. Right. So is there something you would encapsulate that being that that type of, of thinking about the relationships that you have? Is there a name for it?
Darrin: Um,
David: You’re either caring or you’re, uh, know, there’s something there. You’re considerate or you’re just, You know, you’re straight and narrow. What is it?
I can’t, I can’t
Darrin: I, uh,
David: I can’t name it.
Darrin: I may not have an answer for it either, but I took some, uh, sales training with a guy out of Georgia and, uh, he, he taught us about high level negotiating and one of the, the people you can listen to, it teaches you about negotiating, tells you to get everything you demanded. Great. If that’s a hostage negotiation, I probably want to save the hostages life, but in business.
I want to do business with that person in the future, and I’m always thinking about step two and step three going. This is a relationship that I want to tug on for the next 20 years. So I’m making an investment today. Otherwise, I have to be a low cost leader. And I don’t want to be the low cost leader because I can’t win that game.
So, uh, whether it’s the relationship or the innovation or the brand, I want people to realize what they’re paying for at the end of the day and feel good about it.
David: right.
I want to transition now a little bit
So you sold your business a couple of years ago, a year ago.
Darrin: Yep, last Christmas.
David: how big was the business at that time from your starting point to,
Darrin: we were, uh, we were hitting the 40 million mark, so not massive, uh, but pretty pleased.
David: And, and you were probably the largest business on Prince Edward Island.
Darrin: But besides government, we were pretty good. It’s hard to beat government.
David: that’s, that’s kind of sad, but true. you sold the business and I’d love to hear your story about your next business? What are you doing now? where did the idea come from? How did it germinate and where are you today with the new business that you’ve created?
And it, if you can talk a little bit about the fact that you went from making physical products and licensing technology to uh, transportation customers. Now you’re in the software business and really in education and learning. So talk about what you’re doing today. I’d love to hear your story
and the journey that got you to start it.
Business # 2…. more successes
Darrin: All in my manufacturing business, I became obsessed with digital connection. So one, uh, we had over 6 million views on YouTube and I would go to a conference in, um, Louisville, Kentucky, and people would come up and talk to me. Like they had known me for years and that shook me going, I can live in someone else’s head, no matter of time or space, what a powerful tool to build brand and trust.
And that was a big one. Second thing we started doing is we were putting sensors on the trailers that would show the owners how many loads they had run off during the day. And why that was important is because I knew that he or she was on a beach in Florida. While the business was running somewhere else, what I needed to do was I wanted to become their business partner and show them what their equipment was doing.
So I would get phone calls from time to time saying, Hey, we have two pieces of equipment that aren’t running today. And I went. You may want to call them. I don’t know why you’re calling me, but you may want to call your crew. We were able to get into someone’s head and become their business partner. So those things were, um, incredibly important to me.
And I seen. the, the power of this as to how you can use this to get into someone’s head. You can not like it because I prefer face to face communication, but you cannot deny the power of this new device that we have. So, uh, sold the business right away. I had other manufacturers calling me saying, we need some help.
And I realized really quickly that I’m not good at everything. I’m only almost good at one thing and I didn’t want to be all things to all people. So. I hired a tech team, I hired a few university professors to help me with the educational side, and we built manufacturing masters. And basically what it is, is I went out and recruited now 130 experts around the world, and I would say to them, you’re an expert in this one particular thing, say ERP, or sales, or human resources, the list goes on and on.
In five minutes, can you tell me in bullet point form what excellence looks like in this one very unique thing I may have to deal with today? So, we’ve recorded over 500 videos. So, we’ve recorded in India. Most of our experts come out of the U. S. Uh, but we’ve also recorded in Europe. To say to that expert, I don’t have 40 minutes for a TED Talk.
I got five minutes. Could you tell me I need to hire a new operations manager? What are the five qualities I should be looking for? So, like I said, we have over 500 videos and we have over 6, 000 users today. And we have been, uh, we have been live one year and, uh, this month we’re adding. So we’re always adding new experts.
Uh, we have one expert who talks about how to, um, how to work with the government. So if you have, if you’re responding to an RFP as a manufacturer. Why do some companies get that winning proposal and why do some companies not? And I always struggle with that because I don’t think I ever sold to the government.
Um, and we have another expert who’s talking about how to handle neurodiverse employees within your business. So are you ready for people who may think differently than a typical employee that you would see walking through the door? Are you accommodating them in the right way? So, yeah, I’m pretty pleased with the way it’s grown.
Uh, we’re now partnering with associations becoming their learning libraries because they love the, how easy the format is to use. And we also have individual companies signing up and signing up their staff, saying, um, you know, we’re going to implement an MRP system. We’re just going to watch this five minute video on the top 10 things you need to do to prep of what excellence looks like before you even meet with your first salesperson. So, so that’s, uh, that’s where that product’s going and I’m running my mouth right now. As an aside, the tech that we built to allow that to happen is basically an LMS.
Built a learning Management System
Darrin: That tech is now being bought by universities who are using it to help store and train and certify their students. So we can do micro credentialing, we can do certification, and…
Even hearing these words come out of my mouth, I didn’t even have this language a year ago. So it’s, I’m hearing it come out going, when did I start speaking like this?
David: so, what’s your vision with it? where do you see it in three years or five years? Do you see yourself being an LMS? Do you see yourself being a curriculum of, of practical guides on businesses and roles in businesses?
What is the Vision of the Future for Darrin and Manufacturing Masters?
Darrin: Yeah, customers keep telling us where they want to grow and I keep saying yes. So I didn’t think we would be selling to universities, but like I said, I have a couple PhDs on the other side of this wall who are well connected and I just. Oh, that’s great. We have new customers. So let’s keep going. Um, I enjoy, uh, working with the associations who are saying, listen, could you produce a learning library for us of high value, easy to use content for our members?
And my heart is always. with that small business owner who is struggling today. That’s where my heart lies. I do free consulting just for those people. And I know I shouldn’t, but I have a lot of time for that small business owner who is going, I feel alone. And I think that’s what’s really, there’s no question on their intelligence or their work ethic.
It’s just sometimes you feel like you’re alone while you’re walking that road. So I enjoy having, as an aside, I enjoy having those difficult conversations with those business leaders.
David: So, who, who are the, when you mention associations, by the way, I’m assuming You’re talking about industry associations like the fabrication makers, uh, of a region or, uh, manufacturers, uh, groups, those kinds of associations, or am I thinking of
Darrin: Yep. That’s correct.
David: how do you find manufacturing masters?
what’s, what’s the website?
Darrin: it’s, uh, manufacturing masters. com, and that’s the easiest way to find it. David, but you mentioned something earlier on that may… close the loop on this, is I think in North America.
Why Manufacturing Industries Shrank!
Darrin: One of the biggest reasons that the industry shrunk, and I’m going to throw out something today that somebody may not agree with me, is I think we made a mistake back in the 80s by telling North American companies they had to be like Japanese companies. Because they’re not, they’re just different. Can we steal best practices from Korea? Yes, we should as a point of business. But when I work with a lot of those manufacturers today, they become process, process, process. And I think what we forgot to do is tell the manufacturers you’re also a business and I want you to spend even more time on your business than I do your process because, you know, I can bring up Alibaba today and show any manufacturer you’re now competing against with 983 companies. And you’ve got to stop saying, well, there just shit that’s now not acceptable anymore. So just to circle that back, if I can help,
Passionate About Business not just shooting to be low cost but focus on innovation, US Industries’ GREATEST Competitive Strength…
Darrin: I’m pretty passionate about building that innovation back into those North American businesses. We don’t want to be the low cost leader.
David: Right.
Darrin: be innovative and growing and exciting to work for and have a future and feel good about ourselves and sell our ideas to other countries.
Not just always looking for that lowest point because the data shows it doesn’t work. Somebody else will always do it for cheaper and I don’t want my country competing for the lowest point.
David: Right, right. And lowering our average.
Darrin: There’s no end, like it just, it just, it’s not fair and you become not fun to work with.
David: But Darrin, one of the things that crystallized, and I hate to go academic, but um, I’ve worked with the Tech 500 for a good portion of my career and helping them with strategy. And one of the things that I found, and it just speaks to the issue we’re talking about today, which is When companies go to market, they orient in three directions.
David: Businesses Face the Market in 3 Ways: Customer Centric, Process Focus, and Product/Technology Orientation, BUT One is usually dominant!
David: Customer centricity, process orientation, or product orientation. And you come to market with all three of those, but you’re dominant with one. For example, IBM was always considered a customer centric business. They never had the best products. But they knew how to help you move yourself from an IT manager to a CIO and get to the boardroom so that you’d be more effective at making data and IT an integral part of the business and a part of the strategy.
You’ve got companies like McDonald’s that focus on quality and on the back of every business card from a manager or a line cook or the quality metrics that that McDonald’s looks for, so that the, the hamburger you get in, in Tokyo, or the hamburger you get in Seoul, or the hamburger you get in Dubuque, Iowa, or Prince Edward Island, is always going to be the same, and people expect that consistency, and they do that through process.
And then you’ve got companies that are product centric, that focus on having the best and absolute product, and You’re speaking to a really good point, which is always balanced. These three always should be balanced. But more importantly, customer centricity, I think, and you’re reaffirming this, is the way for manufacturing to become much more effective in its role over the next 20 years if we’re smart.
And that, that may require that we become more customer centric because the demand is shifting away from mass manufactured products. And to more personalized and customized products and to be intimate with your customers will tell you what they’re looking for that’s unique for them versus everything else that’s being delivered.
So, uh, does that resonate with you?
Darrin: You said it’s so much better than me. Absolutely. So right now I’m a startup.
Darrin: Being Customer Centric Creates Greater Cash-Flow for Small to Medium Businesses
Darrin: So, uh, yeah, we’re very customer centric. And I can tell you that the costs of money and they have large complicated problems and I love being like I had a meeting last week with a very large organization who said can we just take a half an hour and tell you how messed up this is. And I went, yes, that’s what I like to hear. Uh, could I just make those problems go away for you?
And that’s a great spot to be because it means they’re not looking anywhere else. In the future, yes, I want standard products pumping at the door, which, which is happening. But for cash flow purposes, as we grow, I spend a lot of time doing that. And I’m now training my replacement to start doing the same so I can spend some time doing other things.
But what I, I’m not, I’m being very honest right now. I don’t want to go out and ask someone for four million dollars to blow through that quickly for something I could be doing myself. What I’d like to do is just keep proving what it is that we do well and then continue to put those systems in place, but there has to be that driver.
And for right now, that’s me. It’s not going to be that way forever, but I enjoy doing it.
David: there is one question I have that’s been rolling around in my mind.
So fear is what drove you earlier in your career. But at the same time, I see braveness. Is that a word? I see you not being shy in terms of helping people, and taking on problems that have significant magnitudes of complexity that you’ve never dealt with before and not being afraid of it.
How, how is that helping you?
You know, how do you describe that in your business today and what you’re doing? Because
Darrin: Uh, we,
David: talking about, hey, I’ve got this, uh, customer and I just met with who gave me a list of 20 things. And I think we can help them do this, even though you’ve never done it before.
Darrin: yep.
David: Right.
Darrin: Where is your Courage Threshold?
Darrin: anytime I meet with another business, I always have to sit back and look at the leadership and say, where’s your, where’s your courage threshold? And you need to have that because what that does is say, I can take three punches in the nose and keep going. a person who doesn’t have courage will start to justify their actions.
There’s a reason I didn’t get on that airplane. There’s a reason I didn’t pick up the phone. I already know how they think, and that is a very dangerous place to be. So whether you’re, uh, running a business and been doing it for 40 years, or whether you’re an entrepreneur starting out, I would always challenge your courage.
So, are you going to knock on the door? Why? Well, you never know what’s on the other side if you don’t knock on the door. I have a lot of, tech companies. So I have startups calling me saying, Hey, we’ve got our second round of 60 million in seed funding. And I’ll ask the same question.
How many of your customers have you been with in the last month? Well, we don’t have any. So how many? Okay, let’s go back another step. It’s weird,
David: Technology in search of a market, right?
Darrin: You can’t rule your kingdom from high up in a castle and you have to be very careful you don’t start fooling yourself by thinking you understand how that works.
And again, uh, again, if you’re that startup, or even if you’re an existing customer, you have to get out, get dirty, you know, maybe it’s if you’re in your factory, in my factory, I was known as the ice cream man. Thank you. I would give the ice cream bars to employees on hot days. I didn’t even need to carry on a conversation.
I would just say, thanks, here’s an ice cream bar. And what I was really doing is I needed on, if I was in the factory and not traveling, I was there on a daily basis, three times a day. walking the floor, feeling, listening for tension, things not moving, how people were treating each other. And I didn’t, I don’t want to be anybody.
I didn’t, never wanted to be the boss. I just needed to know when I’m being given information at a later date, where is it coming from? So, and again, I would stress that it’s work most. Some people don’t want to do work. Um, and again, you need to have that courage to say, ow, that hurt. Well, now I know. Next.
And most people don’t want to do that either.
David: So, Darrin, one last question, and then I’ll try and wrap up, because this is so fascinating and interesting. Um, are, we, we talked about that you measure people’s courage.
Is it? If you find that they’re not going to be courageous, are you selective and, and choose not to work with them as a result? Or do you chip away over time to help your partners, competitors become more courageous? So that, so that there is a quid pro quo between you and that there is a relationship that gets developed.
What would you, what would you say to other entrepreneurs or. Our executives, private companies.
Darrin: I’m not actually sure there’s something I could say. I think it’s just measured in action. Um, that would probably be it. Is that I know for myself when I’m working with other entrepreneurs, um, if I don’t think there’s anything there, you get less of my time. If I think there’s something there, you probably get more of my time because that’s all we have at the end of the day.
Startup with 1,000 % Margins… not making any money…
Darrin: But, uh, I remember there was a company with three young guys. they did the big startup. They’ve been in it for a year. They were taking the world by storm and they told me they had 1000 percent margins. And I went, interesting. So I grabbed the whiteboard and I put it here and I said, listen, do you mind if we run through an exercise of how you got thousand percent margins?
Because I need to know, because that’s incredible. By the time we were done, one of them went, we’re not making any money. I know. Yeah, I know.
But one of them was sleeping in his car because he was spending so much time at work. He was just trying to get some eye to a point. I admire that you’re willing to take the risk. You’re willing to put in the effort. You’re willing to get beat up by a guy like me. I’ll give you the time of day. Um, so yeah, those, those are people that.
You know, you have to be smart, that will come in time, but you can’t be so smart that you’d never want to take a step.
David: It’s measured risk. and it’s being open to new ideas. And being a good listener. By the way, was this employee sleeping in their car because you have laws similar to San Francisco where you’re not allowed to have a cot in the office, but sleeping in the car is okay.
Darrin: it was ironic because he didn’t even want to share that, like, it wasn’t in his DNA to even want to share that part of himself with me. It’s just he was explaining that he was waiting for another phone call from a, uh, glass replacement company because someone smashed out his window while he was sleeping in it the night before, like he didn’t, he didn’t even want to share that part with me.
So, like I said, to a point, I have respect of that, that, that desire to try something.
David: Well, this has been great, Darrin. Thank you for taking the time with me and, and sharing your thoughts. You have a lot of great learnings. You have a great way about you. I think, Thank you. Being customer centric is one of the most important aspects of anyone, no matter what their role is in a business, whether it’s the owner, founder, CEO, or a line manager, um, or a laborer.
Being customer centric, even within your company of who do you help out in your business, from day to day. And being thoughtful about it is really one of the most important things that we can all learn from. So, how, how can listeners get in touch with you, Darrin? what information do you want to share?
Your LinkedIn address, your email, anything that you want to share with listeners, they’ll reach out to you.
Darrin: Yep, my cell phone number is 902 856 0010. Call me.
David: Wow.
Darrin: get that too often, do you?
David: Now, you’re, so, well, you’re a little old school like me where it’s like, If you want to talk to me, pick up the phone. I’m not going to wait two weeks for an email to maybe get read.
Darrin: So, but other than that, we’re on all the social media handles, and I’m fairly easy to find.
David: Darrin, this has been amazing. Thank you. I think it’s going to be very helpful for people to hear.
Darrin: Perfect.
David: what did you think of our conversation? Did you learn anything today as well?
Darrin: I wish it was more articulate than you.
David: Ah, you
Darrin: Every time you would paraphrase, I’m like, yeah, yeah, that’s what I’m trying to say.
David: know, I, you know, and maybe I do a bad job of repeating what I’m hearing
and that’s not a good
Darrin: you’re, uh, top notching. You’re making me look better than I am. So thank you.
Amanda: Thank you for watching and listening. We really look forward to hearing from you about one, your thoughts on our guests and their insights to identifying speakers that you want to hear from three, what did you learn and take away from this event? And were you able to apply something you learned immediately back in your organizations and role as a balance leader?
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Have a great day and be a balanced leader.
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